ndjarnag wrote:
I think the biggest mistake V-sets could make is excessive use of the disruptive ability (i.e. access to cheap disruptive for all factions)
1. I think disruptive discourages the use of the commander effect mechanic, which is a huge part of the fun of the game. A buddy recently mentioned that one of the benefits of his competitive squad was it's minimal use commander effects in light of opponents using disruptive. Is that the direction we want for this game? I think the creative reliance on commander effects should be key especially at the top tier.
I wonder how long you have been playing this game? Disruptive was introduced specifically because CEs in the game had become too powerful, and squads had become nearly 100% dependent on CEs. I think the fact that Disruptive exists right now, and that people have to build with it in mind is a perfectly great place for the game to be. Sometimes, as you pointed out with your friend, people will build squads with minimal CEs so they don't have to worry about Disruptive. Sometimes, you still build with several CEs, but you make sure you have a way to deal with the Disruptive piece. Like any mechanic in the game, if you take away one thing, something else will rise to the top.
Now, I would agree that we don't want to throw Disruptive around so willy-nilly that it makes running CEs completely useless. And honestly, I really don't think that will ever happen. I don't necessarily want to see a
cheap Fringe Disruptive piece, but several factions desperately need access to Disruptive in order to compete. The Separatists, Sith, OR, Mando, and Vong in particular would all benefit nicely.
ndjarnag wrote:
2. I don't think the disruptive ability is particularly fun. Running Juno/Madine within 6 of your opponent to nerf their commander effect is not that interesting. (Now, I do admit that disruptive on KKBM is kinda cool and fitting for the piece.)
I'm not trying to be snotty or anything, but frankly, what you consider fun is different from what other people consider fun, and should not be a factor at all in designing new pieces/stats. People who are only interested in what's fun will just play whatever they decide they want to play. If you and your play group decide that Juno/Madine is 'not fun', then just have a gentleman's agreement that no one will play them. Honestly, I think part of the 'fun' is in figuring out how to beat those pieces. KKJBM is a tough SOB to take down, but Juno or Madine? Come on. If you can't figure out how to kill them easily, then you have more to worry about than just what is or isn't fun.
ndjarnag wrote:
3. Excessive disruptive will decrease the uniqueness of the factions. Part of the distinctness of to NR is that they can field a powerhouse melee piece with disruptive (KKBM) yet most other factions can't. Also, rebels are the only faction with cheap disruptive. I think that is good for defining the factions.
I agree that factions should be individual. But just adding Disruptive wouldn't necessarily change that. Override used to be limited to just Rebels and Republic. Did the addition of Lobot, T3, or the R7 upset that? No. It's just a game mechanic. If Disruptive is added to the right pieces, and used in the appropriate ways, then it shouldn't disrupt how the factions work at all.
ndjarnag wrote:
4. Excessive disruption will decrease the uniques of the squads. Do we really want disruptive to be a common component to every squad/game? Personally, I hope not.
Is Disruptive used in every single squad that it could possibly be used in now? No. At least 2 of the 4 Snowspeeder squads in the Top 8 at GenCon last year did not have any Disruptive. Yes, they could have run Juno, and many other SS builds did include her. But she wasn't an 'auto-include' as your inferring here. Disruptive pieces like Juno are perfect, IMO. They are kind of like Wicket. Weak enough that they'll only survive 1-2 key rounds, so you have to be very careful with how you utilize them. If we get a Fringe Disruptive piece in a similar vein to that, then it shouldn't be a problem at all for the game. Or, the better methodology, might be to give Disruptive to specific Unique characters within some of the other factions, therefore forcing people to make squad building decisions about whether they want the version of the Unique with Disruptive, or the version with some other suite of abilities.
ndjarnag wrote:
To summarize: This one ability that nerfs all commander effects is excessively powerful, and not particularly fun, therefore it should be used very sparingly. Am I right or wrong? What's your opinion? I hope one of you SWM veterans/designers could comment on this. Thanks!
If you really feel like Disruptive is too strong, then I highly suggest you work on learning how to beat it, rather than worry about more pieces being introduced with the ability. Whether or not more Disruptive is introduced to the game, is pretty likely that Juno, Madine, and Kyle JBM/CI are here to stay, and they are all solid pieces which will continue to see play in just about any Meta, IMO. So, you may as well work on learning how to beat those. Once you learn how to work around the problems of Disruptive, then I think you'll realize that adding some more Disruptive pieces to the game wouldn't really hurt things as much as you think it will.
Darth Muerte wrote:
I also suggest holding back on reserves at least for time play. Sitting around for a player to pick out his pieces is just time consuming and takes away some of the point in building a squad. This comes partly from my dislike of magic's side broad. Were play have 15 card they can swap in their decks, mostly to cover up bad match ups. If a squad/deck have a bad match up then deal with it or make a new squad.
Total side note here, but this has absolutely NOTHING to do with design of pieces. Running a piece with Reserves means the player should have things set aside already that they intend to use for Reserves, and not have to go rummaging through their storage case when they roll that magical init number. I'll be judging the Cincinnati Regionals, and I can guarantee that if anyone shows up with a Reserves squad, and takes too much time picking their pieces, they will get a slow play warning. There's honestly no excuse. You take 30 minutes sometime earlier in the week to write down about 5-10 combinations of your points. For instance, if I'm running Lobot CLO, I might write down a list like this:
Dash RS
Twi'lek BSV + Human BG
R7 + Human BG + Mouse Droid x2 + Ugo x2
Whenever I go to GenCon or other large events, I create an entire separate squad box of just reserves pieces. You have to be able to quickly select the pieces and keep the game moving.