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 Post subject: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Well after much consideration I now have my "Swiss Army Knife" squad at 150 pat down for playtesting in the post-LotF miniature world.

Swiss Army Knife
-----
Grand Admiral Thrawn [37]
Grand Moff Calixte [18]
Grand Moff Tarkin [11]
Mas Amedda [8]
Noghri Commando [23]
Storm Commando x2 [34]
Stormtrooper x3 [15]
Gran Raider [4]
-----
Total 150 w/ 11 Activations

All my little Commando's gain SS and all get great bonuses from my various commanders. The Noghri double attacks at a +15 for 30-40 (possible 50 against stealth characters!) and the Storm Commando's each double at a +13 for 30 damage (possible 40 damage against stealth). Thrawn is used to his fullest extent in this build; utilizing Force Immunity (No deflected shots for the SC's), his Master Tactician to fuel the heavy Cunning Attackers, his +3/+3 bonuses to offense and defense of the commando's and of course his swap ability. Tarkin makes this squad all come together. Utilizing his CE you can play this squad in various ways.

And you thought Storm Commando's were tough, just wait until you can't shoot them back. :scoutT:

Well here it is, rip it to shreds. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:32 pm 
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A very, very tough looking squad!

It partially makes up for the lack of accurate with the ability to hammer stealthy figures once they get in close... But I don't know if the complete lack is made up for... I'd imagine only testing would prove how good it could really be; but it'll be a challenge for any army to take down!

As always, your squads are fantastic Flea! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:22 am 
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This is actually EXACTLY how I envisioned this squad at 150 points, Flea. The Noghri Commando is a GREAT addition to this type of squad, and it's really impressive that this can now be done without Boba Fett Mercenary. That gives you a lot more flexibility. Being able to swap the Noghri or the Storm Commandos is sweet too, because then if you have to swap out of range of Thrawn's Ysalimiri, you can custom tailor the attacking piece to the weakness of your opponent. Jedi with Lightsaber Deflect? Swap in the Noghri, and vice versa. Damage output is scary good.

The only thing that might be frustrating that I can see at this point is San Hill, since they typically have Gran Raiders to sit in gambit, which none of your pieces will be able to see. And if you move anything up late in the round in order to take out the Grans, you risk exposing them. I still think the early round swaps will help you out plenty, but I'll have to play-test it to be sure. I'm just worried that it doesn't have enough beef in the squad in order to advance against a San/Dodonna based squad and still survive.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Yep, this is pretty close to what I was referring to in the other thread Flea, nice version!

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:54 pm 
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I like it. I wish there was a way to fit an Imperial Security Officer into the squad to screw with the mirror, but I don't know what you would take out to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:40 pm 
One of The Ones
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Yeah, the Imp Sec Officer is just WAY too expensive at 20 points for what he does, IMO. I wouldn't worry about it too much. You both do what you can early game. Eventually, someone will lose a key initiative, and sometimes, that's just the way it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:23 am 
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My friend played this in our last tournament, and he went quite good. Altough he has - tarkin and some forder, + extra Noghri Commando


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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:35 pm 
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Looks like a great squad, as always Flee. With super Stealth and anti-stealth, this will an interesting squad to play. The damage output is also phenomenal. Nice job.
Also an Imperial Security Officer would be stupid in this squad!

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Disruptive is your worst nightmare, as well as It's a Trap to a certain extent. In other words the NR will be your biggest enemy, how fitting.

I would probably downgrade the Noghri Commando to a Storm Commando and two uggys for door control that doesn't activate your damage dealers.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:34 pm 
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adder wrote:
Disruptive is your worst nightmare, as well as It's a Trap to a certain extent. In other words the NR will be your biggest enemy, how fitting.

I would probably downgrade the Noghri Commando to a Storm Commando and two uggys for door control that doesn't activate your damage dealers.


The Disruptive has to get within 6 to be effective. As does the It's a Trap!. With the 2 SC's shooting downrange it is very unlikely that many disruptive pieces would make it. Kyle, R2P0, Talon, Nym, etc. are all too fragile to these SC's. While yes, there is always the worry, this build is versatile enough to overcome that in the right hands.

Also, the Noghri Commando gives a lot of options. He is a melee threat with higher damage then a SC and he cannot be killed by many pieces in one activation. Relying on all shooters is never a great idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:46 pm 
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thejumpingflea wrote:
adder wrote:
Disruptive is your worst nightmare, as well as It's a Trap to a certain extent. In other words the NR will be your biggest enemy, how fitting.

I would probably downgrade the Noghri Commando to a Storm Commando and two uggys for door control that doesn't activate your damage dealers.

Also, the Noghri Commando gives a lot of options. He is a melee threat with higher damage then a SC and he cannot be killed by many pieces in one activation. Relying on all shooters is never a great idea.

Ah, somehow I completely missed the fact that he was Melee.
Still, the extra Grenades and door control might actually be better in some situations than a melee threat.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:43 pm 
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this seems to be the Style and direction that Thrawn is going in these days.

High powered shooters that can be swapped around from a distance so that disruptive doesn't bother them.

Thrawn can negate deflect with his Ysalimiri and there is enough punch with the SCs to take out the vong JHs in a few hits.

Its weaknesses is that there isn't a lot of HPs and you don't have accurate to focus on the piecs you need to. Another potential problem is that you don't have much to prevent Thrawn/tarkin/Mas from being targetted, not that they will emerge much from their corner but some maps can expose the commanders fast.

In anycase, its a pretty well optimized build. Not much i would change. You could possibly run 3 grans and an uggie for the stormies (or 2 grans and an aqualish) so you have the entire forward force as super stealth.
There arn't many pieces that can dish the same dmg for cost as the doubledead eye SCs. The Noghri is also a nice addition. Tmtel is an interesting replacement for the Noghri. Gives you the before and after strike.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:06 am 
One of The Ones
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I was just looking at this again, and thinking about running it tonight at our LGS, and realized the one weakness with having no door control other than the SCs. I think this could hurt a decent amount, but I'm not sure what to do about it. You could drop 2 of the Stormies (or 1 ST, 1 Gran) to get 3 Ugos, but I'm not 100% sure that's the right move. More activations is always nice, but you're losing either 2 scrub shooters, or your Stealth swapper.

I just hate the idea of having to burn a Storm Commando's activation in order to blow open a door, especially when that probably means they'll be left somewhat out in the open (I'm thinking particularly of maps like Bespin, Throne Room, Mos Eisley, Ruined Base, where there aren't Green squares near most of the doors).

EDIT: Also, which map are you thinking would be best for this squad? My first thought is Death Star, since the Super Stealth gives you a nice way to keep the Gambit area clear. I think Starship and Mos Eisley could be fun as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:18 am 
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Flea, I ran this on Thursday night at our LGS. See topic: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2918

Quick recap though, I ran 3 Raxus Prime Troopers instead of the Stormies. I really liked this option, and I wouldn't have been able to beat one of the Vong squads as easily as I did otherwise. Wall Climber let me sneak past a YV Jedi Hunter and get to his Shaper to blow it away. And without Cunning or Momentum, the YV JHs had a really tough time hitting eithher the Noghri or the Storm Commando successfully. Against 4 YV JHs I only lost the Noghri, and that was mostly because I used it to take out the shaper, and my opponent focused on killing it that round, which gave my SCs one more full round before the JHs turned their attention on them. So, overall, Vong were not a problem for this squad at all.

What WAS a problem was freakin Han Galatic Hero, or more specifically, Never Tell Me The Odds. Without Thrawn or Nyna's initiative help, and just lousy luck on my part, I lost pretty much every key init in that game. Disruptive wasn't even a factor, as at the end I swapped the Noghri in close enough to get one hit on an already activated Han, but then of course, I lost init again, and Han killed the Noghri (at that point, both SCs were dead as well). So, being able to consistently win initiative was awesome, but not having that at all was plain brutal. Plus, he had Dodonna, so he could wait me out till I activated everything.

Now, against a San or Ozzel squad I don't think it'd be that big of a deal, because you have Super Stealth, so you can pretty comfortably set yourself up early in the rounds, and as long as you're 7 or more squares from enemy pieces, you're typically going to be OK with Super Stealth. Dodonna and either Han Rogue or Han GH will be the problem. I know there really haven't been any great Han Rogue squads to date that can typically keep up with the rest of the meta, so we'll have to see if the Han GH squads can keep pace or not. If Han GH does prove to hold his own in meta squads, it will end up being a fairly nice counter to SAK.

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