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Is Wizards going to belly up to the Bar?
https://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=396		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  homer_sapien [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:28 pm ]
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My best guess is we'll get some small improvement, but nothing all that noticable. SWM will always be the red headed stepchild of Wizards game lines.
Author:  Adikt2 [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:38 pm ]
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Which is amazing, every time I go to an event they seem to be pretty full. Even local tourneys usually do pretty well around me, they have rabid star wars nerd fans (like me and I would wager most of you as well) ready to pay for the figures. Heck they even have a community that would volunteer to do a great deal of the character/map/scenarios/etc.

I cant believe we arent making them enough cash to get bumped up from the bottom...
Author:  Grambo [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:45 pm ]
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In all honesty, I wonder sometimes if they even know what they have. I realize Billiv will probably open up a can of whoop ass on me for this, but I seriously question WotC marketing competence. They, at least from this outside perspective, don't seem to have a clue what they want to do or who their customers are. Their products are all over the map (such as the flip flop on D20 system vs Saga for SWRPG) and they don't seem to have a good record on predicting what will and will not work (generally a sign that they don't understand their customer base). From the outside, looks a lot like someone throwing darts at a dartboard of choices and going "ok, let's see if this works!".

I play a lot of games. I became a hardcore player of SWM for three key reasons...

1) It is VERY easy to learn, yet difficult to master... one of the core necessities for a great game. Unlike Magic, which now has so much crap in it that I've seen many a player scared off after a single game because of the amount of stuff they needed to learn, SWM is pretty damn accessible.

2) It is Star Wars. Though quite a few SW games have sucked horribly, I am still going to try a SW game nearly every time. I'm a fan. Guess what... there are literally millions more just like me. They HAVE a captive audience...

3) They haven't bloated the game in the fashion of Magic (yet). It is still broad enough that I can play a hundred games and never repeat a squad... much like Magic... yet manageable for collectors and players.


Bottom line, I think SWM could be more than WotC seems to think. Will they wake up, I cannot say... but I can hope. Perhaps the force will be with us. :)
Author:  SirStevee [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:36 pm ]
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Magic isn't too hard to understand well. It helps to read the articles on the site. :D



But honestly, SWM is big stuff. It is definetly the best SW game ever made. ( not counting video games, of course. ) It would help to see more support, and for WOTC to constantly check the list of things that people want to be made.
Author:  Fox [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:54 pm ]
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Magic at it's core, is easy to pick up. it's why they have the core set then "expert" expansion sets. I've taught ppl magic in 5 min (same length of time takes to teach swm).

But yeah, it would be nice to get a little official lovin, as to date we've gotten fairly screwed far as support goes. but ya never know
Author:  Xanthan [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:16 pm ]
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I think SWM might get some more support from WOTC since there has been 90 players at the Gencon championship.
Author:  homer_sapien [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:24 pm ]
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Xanthan wrote:
I think SWM might get some more support from WOTC since there has been 90 players at the Gencon championship.


Too bad they won't clue us in on how many they were looking for to consider it a good enough tournout.
Author:  SirStevee [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:20 pm ]
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Gencon showed there at least 90 hardcore players of SWM. I'm sure there are many more. There are also many, many more players of the game, so I think this finially is a signal to WOTC for addtional support.
Author:  punxnbutter [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:17 pm ]
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Isn't it always safe to say that the tourney was 10 players short of qualifying for support? The licensing fees probably give the suits a tendency to try to milk this game instead of embrace it.
Author:  homer_sapien [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:31 am ]
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SirStevee wrote:
Gencon showed there at least 90 hardcore players of SWM. I'm sure there are many more. There are also many, many more players of the game, so I think this finially is a signal to WOTC for addtional support.


That's the way I look at it. But I have to agree with punxnbutter that 100, which I think there was only a slim chance would happen, was the number they were looking for.
Author:  emr131 [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:16 am ]
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The pessimist in me says: Absolutely not
The fan in me says: I hope not
Author:  Adikt2 [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  I wonder
I would like to see how our 90 players in the main event compared to the turnouts for their other games big events, and for that matter the other events of the weekend...

We generated a pretty large player pool for almost all of the events (sunday started getting pretty sparse) and I wonder how it compared
Author:  Xffan_2000 [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:22 am ]
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Not to sound negative, but rather to play devil's advocate... Why would WotC need to give additional support?

They already sell tons of product (which includes generic Star Wars buyers who buy anything SW, even if they don't play the game). Even without WotC support, people show up to the few tournaments available. And fans do their best to promote the game without much more than a few repainted commons and counter sheets.

If sales happen "on their own," WotC has no "need" to pump funds into it. Maybe an open tournament at GenCon like last year for a couple thousand dollars could be tossed our way, but I just don't see why WotC would bother beyond that. All the more money available to shove at Magic and/or their "next" Dreamblade-esque project. :roll:
Author:  Solodan [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:29 am ]
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SWM is a great game - its just that the licensing fees will limit how great it can be financially. Just throwing numbers out there, but I'd imagine that if dreamblade did 50% as well as SWM, the profits would've been even. So WOTC gambled with the game with the bigger potential return.

Just my thought - because of the great license, it limits the potential upside in investing. That's why you'll never see huge support, just drips and dribbles now and again.
Author:  Grambo [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:42 am ]
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Xffan_2000 wrote:
Not to sound negative, but rather to play devil's advocate... Why would WotC need to give additional support?

They already sell tons of product (which includes generic Star Wars buyers who buy anything SW, even if they don't play the game). Even without WotC support, people show up to the few tournaments available. And fans do their best to promote the game without much more than a few repainted commons and counter sheets.

If sales happen "on their own," WotC has no "need" to pump funds into it. Maybe an open tournament at GenCon like last year for a couple thousand dollars could be tossed our way, but I just don't see why WotC would bother beyond that. All the more money available to shove at Magic and/or their "next" Dreamblade-esque project. :roll:


To play devils advocate back... if they do too many more Dreamblades, they won't have a company left (assuming it truly did as badly as it seems to have based on the boards and conventions I've visited).
Author:  Grand Moff Boris [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:27 am ]
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I had this whole reply ready, but I deleted it. Instead, let me say this:

WotC owned Dreamblade and it failed. They don't own the rights to SWM, not completely. I can't see them doing more for SWM than what they're already doing when a game they DO own that they marketed with a high-level competition element fell flat on its face.

Also, 90 people for the Championship apparently caught some people's attention, but the pessimists out there are pointing out it was an "Open" Championship (referring to the fact that anyone could come and play without having to qualify).
Author:  Grand Moff Boris [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:30 am ]
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[quote="dnemiller]Right why keep investing so much capital on RD's thinking they have a winner.... Star Wars is a known quantity... You may have smaller profit margin due to licensing but good gravy at least that is a profit... versus paying someone to design a 2 year loser....[/quote]

RD's?

Anyway, I'm sure they didn't go into Dreamblade thinking it would be a "2-year loser." For whatever reason, the great game ideas seem to continually catch them off guard (SWM, War At Sea, etc.)
Author:  Grambo [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:57 am ]
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I agree with you Fool... probably the largest single barrier to SWM being seriously competitive is the problem with maps. This is, in fact, why I've been so loud about it on the Wizard's forums. It would take very little effort and only a moderate amount of cost to solve the problem... the question is only whether they want to.

Solution: DCI Tournament Map Pack. Only maps within it are approved for DCI tourneys. Make sure they select only the 8 maps they feel are most balanced for tourney play (hopefully including at least two new ones). It will do two things for you... 1) It will help TELL you how serious your community is for tournament play (though do keep in mind these maps are also usable for SWRPG)... and 2) It will allow them a one-time "reset" on some of the foolish design decisions they've made now that they realize they've got a potentially serious competitive game on their hands... WITHOUT having to resort to ban lists and the like.
Author:  Mandalorian [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:28 pm ]
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punxnbutter wrote:
Isn't it always safe to say that the tourney was 10 players short of qualifying for support? The licensing fees probably give the suits a tendency to try to milk this game instead of embrace it.


Sad to say but this is prolly what is going on, they are using Star Wars as a cash cow. Just take a look at how badly SSB was dumped on us. Obviously no testing done with the rules and no future planning at all, just a money grab.

I would like to see some quality prizes such as figures with different stat cards rather then just a different paint job. More maps would also be nice yes.
Author:  billiv15 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:00 pm ]
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Mandalorian wrote:
punxnbutter wrote:
Isn't it always safe to say that the tourney was 10 players short of qualifying for support? The licensing fees probably give the suits a tendency to try to milk this game instead of embrace it.


Sad to say but this is prolly what is going on, they are using Star Wars as a cash cow. Just take a look at how badly SSB was dumped on us. Obviously no testing done with the rules and no future planning at all, just a money grab.

I would like to see some quality prizes such as figures with different stat cards rather then just a different paint job. More maps would also be nice yes.


I disagree completely with everything you said. We dont know what WotC was looking for from the Champ, and to start to assume it was a failure is extremely premature. And licensing fees in now way makes this game a "Cash Cow". If anything that's perhaps what holds it back.

Also, I never want limited edition figures with special stat cards that can only be won at tournies. That kind of prize support ruins fun lgs every time a company does it. The prizes should never be like that.

Lastly, if you look at all the stuff coming, it appears the game is in for the long haul. We have a ton of new sets coming, Rob has addressed a great number of the tournament issues so far, and I have no doubt he will continue to tinker with it.
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