Whoops, meant to include Mas in the list. Good luck swapping much without Mas. Especially if BS1 is running off 12 squares in different directions every round.
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| Author: | LoboStele [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:41 am ] |
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Whoops, meant to include Mas in the list. Good luck swapping much without Mas. Especially if BS1 is running off 12 squares in different directions every round.
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| Author: | homer_sapien [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:54 pm ] |
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That would do it. I think if I try it I'll stick with BS1 and only 1 other AT-ST. Then I'd have over 50 points left to work with. |
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| Author: | NickName [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:17 pm ] |
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Quote: So... broken record time!
Blizzard 1: It gains +2 attack, +1 defense, Twin, Charging Fire, Flanking Maneuver, and gives out Rapport to AT-STs... it loses grenades 20, double, mobile, and is a unique. Worth the 0 point difference... I think so. Come on you naysayers, do your best. Unique. What else needs to be said? It's clearly a statement that AT-STs should be cheaper and "solves" that problem at the same time through the Rapport. It looks to me like a figure costed appropriately, and also trying to revitalize an older figure that sees no play because it was too expensive. (Flanking is awesome!) |
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| Author: | emr131 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:36 pm ] |
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NickName wrote: Quote: So... broken record time! Blizzard 1: It gains +2 attack, +1 defense, Twin, Charging Fire, Flanking Maneuver, and gives out Rapport to AT-STs... it loses grenades 20, double, mobile, and is a unique. Worth the 0 point difference... I think so. Come on you naysayers, do your best. Unique. What else needs to be said? It's clearly a statement that AT-STs should be cheaper and "solves" that problem at the same time through the Rapport. It looks to me like a figure costed appropriately, and also trying to revitalize an older figure that sees no play because it was too expensive. (Flanking is awesome!) Put a price point on 'unique'. That's the best answer you got? How about this argument, before you paid 108 points for 2 AT-STs, now you pay 98 for 1 AT-ST and this Blizzard 1, which is the better deal? The AT-ST was one of the few huges that were playable. Along with the Viper and the occasional Starfighter droid, now you say it is overcosted? I may be a broken record on the idea of powercreep, but I can't wait for Rob to say 'well ranged was overcosted, so we are going through a recosting procedure' just to complete the circle. Then with the statement made, everyone can claim there is no powercreep, there is just a recosting going on for ALL figures. |
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| Author: | Jedi1972 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:42 pm ] |
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Sorry emr, but I agree with Nickname. This figure turns the AT-ST squad into a competitive squad. And rightfully so. It gives us another option to play with. WFF's will still give it problems. (Unless you use the Wookie Hunter!) 
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| Author: | LoboStele [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:50 pm ] |
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Jedi1972 wrote: WFF's will still give it problems. (Unless you use the Wookie Hunter!)
Well, WFFs led by Chewie Enraged Wookiee certainly would!! But I forgot that the WFFs had Demolish until just now. That should hopefully make for some nice, balanced, themed battles between the Wookiee Hunter AT-ST and the various Wookiees.
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| Author: | Jedi1972 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:56 pm ] |
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I played that theme against my daughter once. I had the AT-ST's, she had the WFF's. She demolished me! Momentum combined with Demolish destroyed those poor AT-ST's. 
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| Author: | billiv15 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:33 pm ] |
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LoboStele wrote: And I just noticed the way Veer's abilities are worded. WHEN you activate, so at the beginning of the turn, there must be a trooper with 2 squares (basically adjacent)
It says when it (referring to the Hologram) activates. |
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| Author: | NickName [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:37 pm ] |
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Quote: How about this argument, before you paid 108 points for 2 AT-STs, now you pay 98 for 1 AT-ST and this Blizzard 1, which is the better deal? I'm not sure what the point of this argument is. Of course it's better if you pay less for it. Isn't that true with any rapport? Is Queen "powercreep" because Clone Troopers cost 8 instead of 9? Quote: The AT-ST was one of the few huges that were playable. Along with the Viper and the occasional Starfighter droid, now you say it is overcosted?
Not quite. I'm saying that the AT-ST was okay, but not great before. It was marginally competetive at best. (I think that's what you define as "playable"). It remains so. Now there is a much more competative option with Blizzard 1. Blizzard still falls within the range of reasonable pricing in that he's not as good as the best shooters in the game. (To meet my definition of powercreep the best shooters in FU would have to be better than the best shooters in A&E and those were better than the best shooters in BH and they were better than the best shooters in CotF, and so on back to RS. And the same for other categories. But we don't see any clear trend from set to set in any of the categories. We see some pieces get better, and some get worse. We see new high-points, and new low-points. If we change the order of sets being released, we see the exact same trends. And that's with the complication of the admitted pricing issues with Melee that have been adjusted over time and apparently huges as well given the 3 we've seen that are priced more agressively than in the past.) |
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| Author: | SirStevee [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:44 pm ] |
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Regardless, if the wookie-hunting AT-ST is really good, then At-St's are back in! This is an intresting development, and I can't wait to see it happen. |
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| Author: | emr131 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:13 pm ] |
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NickName wrote: (To meet my definition of powercreep the best shooters in FU would have to be better than the best shooters in A&E and those were better than the best shooters in BH and they were better than the best shooters in CotF, and so on back to RS.
Your definition will require a better shooter then Boba BH to be made? That is a strange requirement, and I REALLY hope that it is never realized. We will see with the upcoming Boba (who I think will be priced somewhere between Enforcer and RS). |
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| Author: | fingersandteeth [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:48 pm ] |
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emr - can you give the powercreep lecture a rest? Yep, its happening. In some cases (huges and melee figs) its been admitted. Why the fascination? |
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| Author: | masterjudge [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:56 pm ] |
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dude!!!!!! These are awesome! I can't wait. |
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| Author: | Xanthan [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:03 pm ] |
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emr131 wrote: So... broken record time!
Blizzard 1: It gains +2 attack, +1 defense, Twin, Charging Fire, Flanking Maneuver, and gives out Rapport to AT-STs... it loses grenades 20, double, mobile, and is a unique. Worth the 0 point difference... I think so. Come on you naysayers, do your best. You realize a character being unique will usually result in it being lower costed then if it was non-unique, I'll admit its not a strong arguement, but still. |
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| Author: | dvader831 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:05 pm ] |
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It also lost Damage Reduction, which bites a little. |
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| Author: | Xanthan [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:08 pm ] |
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dvader831 wrote: It also lost Damage Reduction, which bites a little.
no it didn't its on the card. |
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| Author: | R5Don4 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:57 pm ] |
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http://www.toy-palace.com/product_info.php?info=p1921_WOTC-Battle-of-Hoth-Scenario-Pack.html For anyone who has more money than they have patience. *EDIT* Description mentions production limited to 20 000 units. |
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| Author: | Sithborg [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:59 pm ] |
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dvader831 wrote: It also lost Damage Reduction, which bites a little.
No idea what you are talking about, I clearly put it in the stats... 
It's good, no doubt about it. Being Unique limits it a lot, as it loses access to a lot of what made the original playable. I don't think this is necessarily a good example of power creep, looks just fine against the BH Huges. |
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| Author: | NickName [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:50 pm ] |
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Quote: Your definition will require a better shooter then Boba BH to be made? Pretty much. If a new set isn't making stuff better than the best stuff in the game and better than stuff in the previous set the power level hasn't really "crept" anywhere. You've just gotten more stuff within the existing range of power. Quote: That is a strange requirement, and I REALLY hope that it is never realized. Yeah. Me either. That's why power creep to me has an extremely negative connotation. It would be terrible if the game ever came anywhere close to my definition of powercreep. I'm not sure what's so strange about my definition. You've got a curve of pieces with the top of the bell being the average piece (value/cost) and Boba BH or JWM being the current outlier at one end and maybe the Dark Side Enforcer being the current outlier on the bad side. Hopefully the bell is tall and thin indicating the power curve is reletively flat--the best piece isn't that much better than the worst. If new outliers are far better or worse then the bell becomes more squat indicating worse power curve. As long as new sets are falling roughly in that bell somewhere things are good in my book. If the average piece in a set is way up near Boba and the best pieces of "off the chart" then you have powercreep. And if that happens every set you've got a serious problem because entire sets will fall out of the curve.[/quote] |
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| Author: | Sithdragon13 [ Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:41 pm ] |
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I have a strong hunch that the wookiee AT-ST will not let wookiees bypass the DR10 |
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