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 Post subject: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:51 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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After 1yr of playing SWM, I have had some great ups and downs; however I regret to inform you all that I have made the decision to quit playing SWM.

I need to find a new hobby that does not require luck, for I have none.

I can't tolerate losing games based purley on bad luck anymore. It has taken the fun and excitment right out of the game for me.

I tried taking a break after regionals. I lost 2 games at Regionals based purley on rotten dice luck. I needed a 2 to hit Rex and kill him in the last round of the game to win, I rolled a 1.... I needed a 4 to kill Luke and win in another game, but I rolled a 2. On 2 individual rolls of the dice my regionals went from a possible 4-1 to a 2-3.

I am lucky if I roll above an 8. Its seriously gotten out of hand so I have decided to quit. I've tried everything. First I used auto damage squads, but then I got burnt out on them and their limited options. Then I tried save squads, but amazingly my opponents would roll unlimited saves against my gungans ext.

With HSD in full effect, I am turned off to the game. Im lucky if I even hit, let alone get passed the saves.

I'll be playing GVL games throughout the season, but that is about it.

If your interested in buying some of my minis, ebay should be full of them.

Bye everyone... Happy Gaming/Collecting

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:26 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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I would hold off selling your minis unless you really dislike minis or can't play

I'll expand on this later

It's not a lack of luck, it's an expectation you've created that winning is caused by "good" luck where losing is attributed to "bad" luck.

Luck has very little to do with it (IMO).

It has to do with playing a lot on a consistent level and playing better people to learn how to win.

Again, I'll get into this more and take it from me, I'm probably no better then you but I expect that dice will not help me win (but they can help me lose ;) )


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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:33 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Fool wrote:
I would hold off selling your minis unless you really dislike minis or can't play

I'll expand on this later

It's not a lack of luck, it's an expectation you've created that winning is caused by "good" luck where losing is attributed to "bad" luck.

Luck has very little to do with it (IMO).

It has to do with playing a lot on a consistent level and playing better people to learn how to win.

Again, I'll get into this more and take it from me, I'm probably no better then you but I expect that dice will not help me win (but they can help me lose ;) )


I appreciate the encouragement Fool.

It's obvious you misread my post though. Im a good player. I cover my back end, I make calculated movements, and I build good squads. I'm a DCI player. I know how to play with the best of them.

I never said anything about good luck in my post. I only spoke of my own bad luck when it comes purley to dice rolling. Skill can only take you so far in this game. Your going to have to roll well if you want to win. Period.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Lady Luck is nothing if not fickle, and can turn back around for you right when you've decided to give up on her (and turn again just as easily). There are some games that take chance entirely out of the equation (ie: chess), but I gotta say: while a good strategic battle of wits can be enjoyable on its own merits, there's nothing quite like the roll of a die for adding an element of raw unpredictability to a game and making it something more, well, fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:01 am 
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I think you should rethink the game

It shouldn't be if you win or loose

that isn't the point of the game or any game for that matter

The point is to have fun with people you know or meet as you play the game. :D

Learn from what they do and they learn from you by what you do. When all is said and done its just a game. But the friendships can last a lifetime. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:18 am 
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Your luck is the same as everyone else's.

Everyone loses games due to dice now and then. But it's a lot fewer than you think.

And there's lots of room for improvements in skill that help minimize the effects of dice. Your goal should be to play error free, not to win. Winning is really just a side effect of everything coming together--not what you should judge your enjoyment on.

It seemed like only last week you were really into your new Imp squads. What changed so quickly?

Anyway, you should of course do what you find fun with your free time but it just seems like you're making a rash decision. You didn't even mention it at GK Wednesday. What changed since then?

(And yeah, I'm basically saying it would suck to see you guys go so I'm hoping you haven't completely made up your mind.)

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:00 am 
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Tis why the maker blessed us with Force Grip, Lightning, Flamethrower, Corruption, Missles...and my personal fav Combined Fire!

Seriously, though, if you play a game then most people I know play to play with their friends and that experience is greater than any victory.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:03 am 
Droid Army Commander
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In my experience there's no such thing as luck


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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:19 am 
The One True Sith Lord
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I think it is a shame to just give up. If you dont like the game that is one thing but if you are not liking how the game turns out that is different.

Don't take offense to this but having played you on vassal I think you still have a lot of growth potential in this game. I dont think you have mastered (but of course I dont think I have mastered it either). I think you have a lot of room for growth and improvement. Now whether you want to do it or not is another thing. I understand how frustrating dice can be. I have jokingly told my dice horror story at the Gencon 2007 champs several times. I think some of the biggest difference might be our reactions to it. I am older so I was able to laugh at the happenings at Gencon 2007. It was a terrible dice day. I walked away 5-2 and in the top 15 but it felt so short of my goal. But it really was funny. I mean I did everything right it just it was not meant to be my day. I understand your frustration but if you are doing everything right no one is going to look at your bad luck with dice and think less of you as a player. They are going to repsect you as a player. I would rather have respect from my opponent than a win.

I will give you an example currently I am 0-2 lifetime versus Frank Baker (top at Gencon and Darth Baker ont he boards). I have played well enough to win both times but things against him just never fall in my favor and it does his. At Gencon this year I had to suffer through him critting me early in the game to the point it felt like he was rolling die that only had the numbers 19 and 20 printed on it. It didn't matter we had a great match and I was leading in the end. I just could not absorb damage like he could because of the early crits. It was a great matchup and we respect each other and laughed throughout the game. I gave him some tips on how to deal with a certain map he would see in the champs. I still think the world of him.

IT just how you approach the bad things. Do you laugh and learn and earn some respect. Or do you walk away because you are frustrated. As a parent I have always told my children that you cannot quit anything out of frustration or anger. You work thru what is bothering you and once you have worked thru it make a decision when you are not frustrated.

I think LS you should keep playing and have fun. Work thru it and get better. PERIOD.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:49 am 
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Luck comes and goes.

If you quit, then you don't give Lady Luck a chance to shine on you like she did with me in the Gen Con Championship this year.

What goes around comes around with dice rolls. I always look to teh dice to even things out. So if i'm rolling hot in one game i know its gonna bite me in the ass the next (or down the line). I even use this mentalities in games, if i'm rolling bad then i'll take safe shots just to get the dice rolling.

Its all probablilities.

If you choose to move on then best of luck to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:59 am 
Droid Army Commander
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I agree with everythign Dean & Deri just said.

I was going to cite some examples by Dean in the past as how playing makes you better and how you shouldn't give up because of dice.

Now let me just expound upon that a second. First off I can't comment on your skill - we haven't played but I'm at best mediocre (not like these other fellas).

I choose not to play the competitive game, not because I don't love SWM, but, rather, I don't like the "win at all costs" feel. I'd rather have fun, continue to learn and teach the game. What i mean by that is if I saw something that you were missing and it may cost me the match I might damn near point it out!!!

I think what you have to do is not "knee-jerk" and find out why exactly "you're getting out of minis". As Dean pointed out, if you just don't like it anymore that's fine (My cousin just unloaded his collection of 3,000 minis from Rebel Storm not that long ago but his case his different - simply put, he never played).

It's important to look at all the fun, different angles SWM offers. Maybe the competitive game isn't for you. Maybe it's time to try other avenues (DD, TIle Wars, GVL, etc...). Or maybe rather, it's time to exploit these options and then go back to the competitive game when you've learned from the fun elements of the game.

The best thing Dean ever told me is: "Expect to lose every init, miss every attack and fail every save. If you put yourself in that position, you can then only win."

That's not verbatim but it's essentially what he refered to. It's what makes him the best player in the game (or of the many). I think when you change that perspective regardless of how good you are (or may think you are), then everything is a lot more fun (IMO). How many times have I assaulted with Mara needing 4's and missed them all? Or the dreaded move Bane 6, rage, assault and 1.

You can't count on dice either way. They are an unchangeable element of the game and in my 3 years on Vassal with a ton of games under my belt simply put, "There's no such thing as luck."

I firmly believe that. I've seen myself either at home or on Vassal roll: 20 - 20 - 20 -19 - 20 (that was at home with a real dice). I saw myself win 17/19 inits without recon (at home during a CE session). I've also rolled 1 - 1 - 1 -2.

It is what it is. The rolls are what they are, and I think, if that's the reason you're walking away, it's a silly one. If you just don't like the game, again, that's different. If you don't like it because you're expecting to hit needing a 2 or a 4 and you don't, then that's not a good reason. You shouldn't be expecting to hit, you should be expecting to miss ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:00 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Don't take this personally, but there is still a lot of room for improvement in your game. You may have hit a wall, and think the dice are to blame, but generally, that's not the case. I find it hard to believe a guy who has been playing for a year thinks he has mastered it strategically and tactically. That just isn't so, even if you were an absolute genius at the game, it still wouldn't be true.

Just to play with your specific examples, you blame the game on those one die rolls late in the game. Have you really thought through those games, because odds are there were numerous other things that you could have done as well that might have changed the outcome. Sometimes the dice suck. But it's pretty rare in actuality. I still win 90% of my games, and can count on one hand how many times I've ever blamed bad dice solely for a loss. Stick with it, you still have an awful lot to learn.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:43 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Perhaps a good old fashioned dice cleansing is in order. If that doesn't work, introduce the worst offender to the Sledgehammer of Judgement (remember safety goggles). One or two "judgements" in front of the other dice will quickly bring them back in line. In fact, they will begin to compete for your approval. Consider it your own personal Doctrine of Fear. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:32 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Don't do it man. Let the luck come - it inevitably does.

I was playing a game the other day, and was only rolling average until the last 2 turns when my little 501st Clone Trooper rolled 2 crits and took out Grievous. On the other hand I win on average 1/6 Initiatives a game. Does it bother me, sure, but it doesn't make me want to stop playing as I build my squads for fun rather than anything else, and if your dice suck at one point, then it's almost sure fire that your little Ugnaught will cry out 'SHORYUKEN' and crit something later in the game.

In short, don't worry, if you're playing competitive, I'm sure you can learn some new tricks; if not, it's only a game, just have fun. Play a 100 point game with an Ugnaught boss and 28 Ugnaughts (proxys I'm sure), if that doesn't make you laugh, then nothing will...


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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:36 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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Cordova wrote:
Don't do it man. Let the luck come - it inevitably does.

I was playing a game the other day, and was only rolling average until the last 2 turns when my little 501st Clone Trooper rolled 2 crits and took out Grievous. On the other hand I win on average 1/6 Initiatives a game. Does it bother me, sure, but it doesn't make me want to stop playing as I build my squads for fun rather than anything else, and if your dice suck at one point, then it's almost sure fire that your little Ugnaught will cry out 'SHORYUKEN' and crit something later in the game.

In short, don't worry, if you're playing competitive, I'm sure you can learn some new tricks; if not, it's only a game, just have fun. Play a 100 point game with an Ugnaught boss and 28 Ugnaughts (proxys I'm sure), if that doesn't make you laugh, then nothing will...


why proxy them?????

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:23 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Wow. I wasn't expecting this much attention. Thanks everyone for the support. Im glad to know that people value my position as a fellow SWM player. I guess that was part of the problem, me not feeling like a solid or valued member of this community.

I have just been really down on the game latley. It mostly comes from super bad dice rolling, and the annoyance of the ever prevaling evade squads with tempo control.

I can't promise that I will stick with the game, but I will take the advice of my elders and hold on to my minis for now. Who knows.... Maybe after the game evens itself out, I will have an interest in it again.

I know there is always room for improvement when it comes to skill, but how can you possibly roll better? My only conclusion can be to excuse myself from personal issues that drag me down. Perhaps my chi is thrown off and until I center myself, minis tends to add to the fluster I feel and not help it.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:42 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Elders?? Ouch! I'm a spritely 44. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:46 pm 
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Celticindian wrote:
Elders?? Ouch! I'm a spritely 44. :)


:D Thank god someone is older then me

at 36 and being called grandpa on vassal is kinda spooky

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:17 pm 
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Celticindian wrote:
Elders?? Ouch! I'm a spritely 44. :)

My new philosophy is "You're only as old as people you hang around with." . . . . And I feel like I'm 21. This coming from a guy who's just south of 40 (39 years). You can also take a look at my sig.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye SWM
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:31 am 
Black Sun Thug
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come on man! dont quit now. your my favorite guy to play on Vassal. your an awesome player. trust me luck comes and go', eve nto the best of us.

"Luck is merely preparation meeting opportunity"


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