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 Post subject: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:16 pm 
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I just took a look at the new maps for the Clone Wars starter... and was stunned. For the first time in... oh... a VERY VERY long time, WotC delivered two maps that all meet my "great map criteria"...

1) Balanced for both sides
2) No "first turn shooting at opponent unless opponent intentionally sets up exposed
3) Huge friendly
4) Interesting for both melee and shooter squads

Up until recently, the only way I could reliably get these parameters was to use Jedi Cartographer's maps (which we began doing at our LGS exclusively quite a while back). However, it looks like finally WotC took a hint. While I have no way of knowing whether Jedi's maps finally woke them up or not, I'd like to think that his fine work may have had some influence.

Either way, bravo JC for creating so many excellent maps... and bravo WotC for actually doing the same in the CW starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:04 am 
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Thank you! Although I try my best to be humble about htese thinkg. The thought had crossed my mind that maybe some people at Wizards HQ had been taking a peak.

Either Way, I'm glad that the maps have worked out for everyone. It's good that the official maps are going through a bit of a renascence as well. I think between all the custom maps and new maps we have a pretty good stash to work with for now.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:29 am 
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Thanks for the kind words, Grambo! I'm glad you approve of the new maps!

I've designed a number of SWM maps with the criteria you describe in mind, but these were among the first to see print. (I also designed the Ossus Jedi Temple map, which was never intended to be perfectly balanced for competitive play, and the Taris Undercity, which is in limited circulation thus far.) Prior to these, the layouts of all of the official SWM maps were designed in-house at WotC, and I (a freelancer) was hired to illustrate them based on WotC's designs; it has certainly been a pleasure to develop some official SWM maps from the ground up. :)

While I respect the contributions of folks like Jedicartographer who make their own new maps available for the SWM community, I try not to let my work be influenced by others' designs. I have, however, paid a lot of attention to the feedback I read about other maps (particularly the comments regarding my own Ossus and Taris maps), which tends to affirm my own feelings about what makes a good, playable map.

With that in mind, I really look forward to reading the reactions to the upcoming Map Packs. I try to make each map distinct and interesting in its own way, so you'll find that each map may suit a different play style--but I think that most of those maps will live up to the "great map criteria" you describe. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:45 am 
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Mapmaker - Sounds like you got a cool gig as a graphic designer. I like the stuff in the starter and Taris, but have not been able to play them as much as I would like. I assume that your really don't have much to say about having maps sactioned for DCI use.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:58 am 
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I don't think anyone thinks that I have a direct influence on you Chris. I think it's more the fact that JC Map Pack was a pretty hot item at the right time. And Wizards may have started exploring the importance of having a wider variety of maps.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:38 pm 
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LESHIPPY wrote:
I assume that your really don't have much to say about having maps sactioned for DCI use.

That's correct; I don't have any direct contact with the DCI folks. However, I do keep competitive play in mind while designing maps, with the hope that a fair number will be deemed suitable for DCI-sanctioned events.

Jedicartographer wrote:
I think it's more the fact that JC Map Pack was a pretty hot item at the right time. And Wizards may have started exploring the importance of having a wider variety of maps.

True enough. Folks have been asking for more maps for a very long while, and I was very pleased when I was asked to work on these. I don't recall exactly when I heard of your project, but I'm fairly certain I had already been working on the WotC map packs when I first read about it.

It takes a long time to get an official SW project from conception to publication; for example, one of the Map Pack maps I created for WotC includes a location similar in theme to a map in your second set. Mine was developed almost a year ago, but it seems likely that yours will see print sooner.

There have also been maps that I've intended to work on that I've put on a back burner due to members of the SWM community producing maps of similar location. For example, I had been planning a new Mustafar map to be more accurate to the location seen in Episode III, but I prioritized other ideas when I read that you were doing something similar. (I've never been satisfied with the original Mustafar map because I had to illustrate it before the movie was out, and had no say in the layout.)

Fool wrote:
I haven't looked very closely at both maps yet, but I know they will work into my plans going forward.

Awesome! I'm glad you folks are enjoying these.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:10 pm 
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All I can say is both JC and Mapmakers maps have made me a very happy collector. I picked up the Clone Wars scenario pack and I love the intact version of Christophisis vs the 'shattered'. Being able to carry on a scenario in a pre-bombardment area and then the after effects is such a cool idea. That scenario pack was such a welcome surprise on top of the starter pack that I'm not sweating the delay in the other 3 map kits from WotC. I'll be busy until then.....

Of course I'm also looking forward to map pack 2 and some pushing on Kashyyyk and slaughtering Uggies in the mine forge. I need a new map folder as opposed to when I used to play on the same 3 starters for years. It's awesome!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:53 pm 
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Got the scenario pack and have to say I love the new Muunilist map. I would love to see this become DCI legal...SOON. I could see this becoming my favorite map of choice in sealed events. I currently always use the old Muunilist and this one is so much more sealed friendly. I also love having 2 versions of Christophsis without having to buy multiple copies of the starter or scenario. Way to go Wizards.

@Mapmaker. I realize that on the wizo site you get a ton of requests from DCI tourney players, but there are a bunch of us out there that play mostly casual multiplayer. Any maps that have nice starting positions for 3 or 4 players are gold in my book and much appreciated. That's one of the main reasons I am such a huge fan of JediCartographers work. A lot of his maps are very multiplayer friendly. I can't wait to see what the map packs next year bring to us.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:13 am 
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I would also like to point out that Mapmakers latest stuff has really affirmed that he is the alpha dog of Star wars maps. THe art on the maps, which already was top notch, has gotten even better.

It's very easy for me to admit that Christopher West is the biggest influence on what I do.

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 Post subject: Re: Praise for maps
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:48 pm 
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Thanks, JC! That's very kind of you to say. :)

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